Veganism is widely cited as a form of vegetarianism, but vegans generally don’t see it like that and prefer to distinguish clearly between the two.
Well, one reason is that a number of sub-category diets have emerged under the vegetarian umbrella that include eating meat and using animal by-products, something vegans are obviously keen to disassociate themselves with.
There’s also the fact that most (not all) vegetarians eat eggs and dairy products, which is something vegans don’t do.
With so many sub-groups of vegetarianism, it can all get a little bit confusing, so let’s clear it up, once and for all.
Vegan Vs Vegetarian
The defining line is pretty clear, yet often confused by companies selling food products and foodies and chefs.
Like vegans, vegetarians do not eat any animal flesh: so no chicken, pig, cow, seafood or any other animal.
However, in addition to not consuming any animal meat, a vegan doesn’t eat eggs, dairy products or any other product derived from an animal.
Vegans do not eat dairy products because the dairy industry is extremely cruel, in that it enslaves and repeatedly artificially inseminates cows to produce milk and other dairy products.
When a cow gives birth, her calf is generally taken away within a day of birth, which causes them both extreme distress. Mother cows can be heard crying for their calves for days. The mothers are then hooked up to milking machines two or more times a day and the milk meant for their calves stolen for human consumption.
Due to forced milking, dairy cows suffer painful inflammation of the mammary glands (mastitis). If this happens too frequently, a cow will be sent to slaughter as she is “not profitable” in terms of milking.
Male calves usually end up in cramped veal crates or barren feedlots where they are fattened up for beef. The females will become milk cows like their mothers.
This treatment of cows is the main reason vegans object to vegetarianism.
Vegans also do not use products that have been tested on animals, like make-up and skin creams. Vegans do not use products made from animal skins such as leather belts and shoes.
Vegetarians generally eat eggs and dairy products like milk and butter. Some vegetarians don't eat eggs, but the majority do consume milk and butter.
Vegetarians tend to be a bit more lenient when it comes to using products derived from animals and you may find preference varies from person to person.
For example: You might meet a vegetarian who doesn’t eat meat or dairy but eats eggs, or a vegetarian who doesn’t eat meat or eggs but still wears leather.
Veganism, however, is very clearly defined and there is no deviation. Animals are not to be exploited in any way, and the aim is to reduce (as much as is possible) the suffering caused to non-human sentient beings.
So that means no eating animal flesh or by-products, no using products tested on animals or containing animal by-products, and no wearing products derived from animal by-products.
Different Types of Vegan
Technically, yes. There’s only one way to be a vegan, but there are a couple of different variations in the diet of a vegan.
You see, people tend to see veganism as a diet, but actually it's a way of living that seeks to reduce harm and suffering. However, diet is the biggest part of that.
Two variations of a vegan diet are as follows:
A raw vegan is a person who combines the concepts of veganism and raw foodism, excluding all food and products of animal origin from their diet, as well as food cooked at a temperature above 48 °C (118 °F).
Yes, it really is a thing! Think the paleo diet minus the meat.
For those who don’t know, a paleo diet is based on the types of foods presumed to have been eaten by our Paleolithic ancestors. Followers eat a diet consisting mainly of meat, fish, vegetables and fruit, and excluding dairy, grains and processed food. Do note that the paleo ideology has been debunked by science and numerous anthropologists (see here).
So a paleo vegan is basically a vegan who doesn’t eat processed foods.
The paleo vegan diet is a bit of strange sub-genre, but a marketer's dream no doubt. In truth, it's really just a vegan diet, since the large majority of vegans endeavour to eat high-quality, organic foods anyway, generally avoiding ready-meals, sugar-laden sweets, soda drinks, etc.
So a paleo vegan is just a very healthy vegan.
I should note here that one can also draw a distinction between a person who is a vegan and a person who doesn't identify as a vegan but eats a plant-based diet. The latter is not neccessarily concerned with animal cruelty but chooses to eat plant-based to improve health.
Your Next Read: Being Vegan Vs. Eating a Plant-Based Diet
Different Types of Vegetarians
A fair few branches have sprouted from the vegetarian tree over the years (I’ve waited ages to use that pun), giving vegans even more of a reason to distance themselves from the all-encompassing term “vegetarian” and claim “vegan” as an exclusive category of its own.
Note that the majority of sub-categories of vegetarianism exist solely to define a type of diet, seeking to exclude or include certain foods based on a perception of what’s “healthy” for the individual.
The fact that certain categories of vegetarianism still include meat, and all include some type of animal protein, doesn’t seem to be a consideration, and neither does animal welfare in many instances.
It’s fair to say that your typical vegetarian also gets annoyed with some of these offshoot branches.
Lacto Ovo Vegetarian (Standard)
A lacto ovo vegetarian diet excludes meat and fish but includes dairy products and eggs. This would be considered the standard vegetarian diet.
Also referred to as “lactarian”, this type of diet includes vegetables and dairy products such as milk, cheese, yogurt, butter, ghee, cream, and kefir, but excludes eggs.
An ovo-vegetarian diet excludes meat, fish and dairy products but includes the consumption of eggs. Ovo vegetarians are also referred to as “eggetarians”.
A demi-vegetarian diet excludes meat but includes fish, eggs, cheese and milk-based products.
Semi-Vegetarian (flexitarian diet)
A semi-vegetarian is considered to be a person who is cutting back on his or her intake of meat, but still eats meat when they feel like it. There are two subcategories to this form of, dare I say it, vegetarianism, which it really isn’t!
A pollo-vegetarian diet, known as pollotarianism, includes poultry, dairy and eggs but excludes fish or other mammal meat.
A pesco-vegetarian follows a pescatarian diet, which includes eggs and dairy products, and the occasional consumption of chicken and fish, but excludes red meat.
Do Vegans Have “Beef” With Vegetarians?
By “beef” I mean a grudge, not the flesh of a cow! I just used this slang to create a controversial, click-worthy title. Clever, huh?
It’s not that vegans have a problem with vegetarians, but vegetarians may experience a vibe of disappointment emanating from the plate of their vegan peers.
This disappointment is borne out of frustration for not recognizing the evil of the dairy industry, and indeed the egg/chicken industry, and making the final step to veganism.
Vegans tend to see going vegetarian as a stop-gap on the pathway to veganism. Indeed, like myself, many vegans go vegetarian before making the full transition.
Vegans commend those who go vegetarian, but this does come with an expectation of a serious intent to go vegan, and to do so as soon as possible.
So, if it has been two years since you went vegetarian, expect some tough love from your vegan friends.
Isn’t This Pressure On Vegetarians Un-Vegan-Like?
Just because we love animals, eating fresh greens and hugs, doesn’t mean we can’t get a strop on!
But seriously, no, it’s not unfair. And here’s why…
Most vegetarians, not all, eat dairy, and or use products derived from animals – like leather and silk.
Vegans consider the dairy industry to be the cruelest sub-division of the meat farming industry. As we've discussed, extracting milk requires continuous torture for cows (heifers), and then there’s the fact that calves are torn from their mother the minute they are born.
Male calves are either used as breeding bulls or sold for veal. The females are set aside for milk production, with substandard producers discarded and sent to market to be slaughtered for beef.
Either way, if you’ve ever heard the screams of a calf being forced from its mother, or dragged to slaughter, you’ll understand why vegans aren’t comfortable with vegetarians who eat dairy products.
And then there’s eggs – click here for the full low down on that aspect of cruelty.
In a nutshell: Male chicks are murdered in an industrial blender or gassed or electrocuted. Hens are subjected to the slavery of laying eggs and deprived a life in a natural environment, and those too old to lay are slaughtered for meat – usually by having their heads cut off or their spines snapped.
So, again, you can see why vegans aren’t comfortable with those who stay vegetarian for too long.
For many vegans, it’s as much more about animal rights than it is about health; even though science has proven that a well-balanced vegan diet is the healthiest option.
And then there's the environmental issues.
Your Next Read: 32 Environmental Reasons to Stop Eating Meat
So Are Vegetarian-Labelled Products Okay for Vegans to Eat?
This is probably the section you're looking for if you've got a vegan coming over for dinner.
The answer is no. Don't think that because a food product is labelled “vegetarian safe” that it is “vegan safe' too.
Here’s the official FSA guidelines:
Vegetarian: The term ‘vegetarian’ should not be applied to foods that are, or are made from or with the aid of products derived from animals that have died, have been slaughtered, or animals that die as a result of being eaten.
Animals means farmed, wild or domestic animals, including for example, livestock poultry, game, fish, shellfish, crustacea, amphibians, tunicates, echinoderms, molluscs and insects.
Vegan: The term ‘vegan’ should not be applied to foods that are, or are made from or with the aid of animals or animal products (including products from living animals).
On the face of it these guidelines seem pretty clear, but beware, as the terms ‘vegetarian’ and ‘vegan’ are used voluntarily by industry.
Unfortunately when a product states “suitable for vegetarians”, or “suitable for vegans”, it is only an interpretation of what that company thinks is vegetarian or vegan.
To absolutely ensure that a product is vegetarian or vegan safe, look out for the approved labels.
If you’re a vegan, make sure you look out for the ‘Vegan Society' label, and if you’re a vegetarian, make sure you look out for the ;Vegetarian Society' label on the back of food products.
And if the food has neither, you will have to go by the ingredients, ring the manufacturer, or do some research online.
Also consider that foods that seem safe to eat by way of their ingredients, may be made in factories where non vegan/vegetarian products are made. This means that cross contamination may have occurred, which is particularly common with milk products.
So there you have it, the difference between a vegan and a vegetarian.
Jonathan Brown says
What?! A comment section where conversations actually take place? This is a breath of fresh air. I recently decided to go vegetarian but all the cruelty in the dairy and egg industry is certainly alarming.
Thanks for the thoughtful article–I definitely have something to think about for a while.
Nov 07, 2019 at 7:54 pm
Vegetarian Phil says
I’ve been a vegetarian for a couple of decades, before veganism and even vegetarianism started moving into the mainstream in the western world. I tried the vegan thing briefly but found it too extreme.
I think before vegans criticize vegetarians for not being perfect, they should remember that vegetarians still have a big reduction on their “animal-suffering-footprint”. If vegans have to focus their ire and condescension on someone, it should be those that are either ignorant of animal cruelty or don’t give a crap and shovel various meats into their mouths every single day of the year; otherwise it’s a bit like the police ignoring rapists and murderers to go after litter bugs. Saying that, I know from personal experience that preaching to meat eaters doesn’t get anywhere; vegans need to realize that preaching to vegetarians wont get you anywhere either.
Demi-vegetarian … I think you mean Pescatarian, not a vegetarian since fish are animals.
Semi-vegetarian … nonsense, nothing to do with vegetarianism if you eat even a bit of animal flesh, it’s like saying a Semi-vegan is a vegan that eats eggs only on sundays.
Jul 15, 2019 at 11:41 pm
No, believe it or not there is a demi-vegetarian category which has been around some years. Demi-Vegetarians don’t eat red meat or poultry, but they do eat fish, eggs, Vegetarian cheese, and milk-based products.
A semi-vegetarian is what they call, in the modern day, a flexitarian.
The issue vegans take with vegetarians is that the dairy industry is inherently cruel and revolves around needless systematic rape, child-mother separation and murder. At the same time I think it is important to support people moving away from meat and keep the dialogue open to help people better utilize plant foods for health.
Jul 18, 2019 at 6:12 pm
Vegetarian Phil says
I’ll start this by saying I am not a fan of consuming dairy myself but I am not going to judge other vegetarians harshly for choosing to consume dairy, because their dietary choices still reduce the suffering of animals, even if their main motivation might be just for their own health. You and I know it’s not as simple as saying “ok, i’m no longer drinking milk”, small amounts of dairy is used in a huge array of foods(similar with eggs).
The question “is it possible to produce dairy without cruelty to cows?” I believe it is, but I am aware of the cruelty in today’s industry. Instead of focusing on farmers that are cruel in the industry you criticize vegetarians for helping support the industry.
You, as a Vegan(and I as a Vegetarian) are still supporting cruelty in the food growing industry.. when crop farmers grow the food we eat, they kill wild animals that infringe on their fields: farm machines dice up or crush wild animals that are in the way; farmers setup traps that cruelly maim and kill wild animals; crop farmers shoot wild animals with guns; crop farmers poison wild animals, etc.. is it possible to grow crops without being cruel or harming animals? I think it could be, but it obviously isn’t at this time.
To quote you in a previous post:
“The point is to reduce, as much as is possible, the suffering experienced by animals, and indeed any human being for that matter.”
‘as much as possible’ is quite subjective, I agree with the sentiment but disagree with the way vegans draw a line in the sand and say “if you’re on the wrong side of the line, you’re an evil hypocrite”; for a particular vegetarian maybe they have made all the compromises and sacrifices they are willing or able to make.. yeah so it’s not perfect but it’s still a lot better than not caring at all, I commend any vegetarians and even flexitarians for reducing the overall volume of animal suffering. Around 90% of humans on the planet don’t even give enough of a crap to change their diet at all; instead of commending vegetarians for helping to make a difference and focusing on influencing the meat-eaters, many vegans berate and condescend on vegetarians for ‘not doing it as good as them, for not being willing to reduce, as is much as is possible’.. yeah lets just ignore the other 90% that don’t even care enough to do anything at all.
Vegetarians may be imperfect when it comes to reducing cruelty to animals in the current dairy and egg industries, but their dietary choices do still reduce the number of cows and chickens that suffer in the world; they also stop being responsible for the suffering of fish, dolphins, whales, all other marine life, pigs, goats, sheep, horses, geese, ducks, turkeys, deer, camels and pretty much any other animal that humans love sticking in their mouths(and killing other wild animals that humans see as ‘competition’).
tl;dr vegetarians contribute a lot to reducing the overall suffering of animals on the planet, but all vegans can see is “hypocrites supporting dairy and egg industries!”
Jul 18, 2019 at 7:25 pm
You are right. Modern agricultural methods use pest control to produce crops and therefore kill animals, and of course vegans and vegetarians eat those crops. But the need for such mass pest control is because of the unnatural methods of farming used to produce huge amounts of produce to ship all over the world, and the consumer demand for “perfect” looking fruit and veg.
As someone who grows a lot their own vegetables I know that is near on impossible to not harm any animal in the process of farming, you always end up accidentally killing a snail or some other insect.
But what we need to do is return to localised farming, and organic/veganic farming where we do not use pesticides or herbicides and cruel pest control and instead use systems where native animals, birds and insects are not driven away, but are welcome to co-habitate and benefit the environment.
of course, if there is a situation where there is a food shortage due to a particular pest, then you have to address that problem. But veganism isn’t about declaring yourself a perfect person that does absolutely no harm in any manner and will never do so, is simply about reducing the amount of are necessary suffering that you cause others.
I encourage people to free themselves from the system as possible and grow as much of their own food as they can. In this way people can take control of their food chain and choose not to use dangerous chemicals and cruel pest control methods, which are unnecessary – but become necessary if you are producing on a corporate scale with targets to meet and a desire to constantly grow revenue.
We see this in every area of industry that involves animals. The greedier people become to make money the greater the negative impact on animals and the environment. Look at the dairy industry (rape, forced separation, bolt gunning baby calves in the head), the wool industry (castration and maiming without anesthetic and maiming), the egg industry (throwing billions of male chicks in blenders/gassing to death).
If money can be made by exploiting animals further, come modifying them and reducing them to nothing more than items to be sold on a shelf, some humans will do it.
Suffering in life is inevitable for us all in one way or another, and any living species is not exempt from that rule of nature. But as the planet’s dominant species, and a species with moral agency, we have a duty of care to reduce offering on our planet. Moreover, it is beneficial for us to do so. It is beneficial for use our intelligent minds to work out how best to use the resources of our planet by doing the least amount of damage.
I am not berating vegetarians. I’d simply say have a look at the evidence of suffering in the dairy and egg industries, and ask yourself do you want to support that, and do you need to support it?
Of course there are circumstances where it would be considered far more ethical to take milk from a cow or discarded eggs from a chicken. For example, there are people who only eat discarded eggs from rescue chickens. And if someone is caring for some cows from birth to death, and not killing the males or separating the calves from their mothers, and only taking a small amount of excess milk for themselves, then clearly that is far more ethical than buying dairy and eggs from the evil commercial industries. But my personal stance is that unless I need to interfere with the natural reproductive cycles, diet and environment of animals to live a healthy life, then I won’t.
I guess is a simple mantra to live by. I just ask myself the question: can I continue living healthily and happily without causing any direct or indirect harm to this person or animal. If the answer is yes then I carry on. If I suddenly had a medical need to drink a glass of milk, or eat a piece of fish or a couple of eggs a week to prevent some form of illness or early death, then of course I would do that.
Jul 19, 2019 at 11:49 am
I don’t get it.
Plants have lives too.
Why is it OK to kill a plant but not an animal?
Feb 14, 2019 at 1:05 pm
Either you’re being facetious or genuinely didn’t learn any biology in school. I’ll assume the latter and give you a couple of things to think about:
1. When I go out into my garden and pick some spinach leaves, by the following week the plant has regenerated itself and fresh leaves are available to be picked. When you hang an animal up by it’s legs and slit its throat, or cut off a limb or two, they don’t grow back.
2. Science shows us that animals feel parallel levels of stress, fear and pain to humans. Plants don’t because they do not have central nervous systems or brains that resemble those in the animal kingdom. Plants respond to environmental stimuli.
3. Many plants want to be picked because this is how they spread their seeds and relocate to create biodiversity in the environment. This is called seed dispersal. For example, later this year my spinach will go to seed. Those seeds will be spread by the wind, by birds eating them and poo’ing them out elsewhere, and by me cutting the plants.
4. Humans are descended from frugivorous apes. We are designed to primarily eat plant foods, which contain the vital carbohydrates, proteins, fiber and phytochemicals we need for growth and protection against disease. Eating animal flesh cannot provide us with the phytochemicals or fiber our bodies need to thrive. Though we can can safely eat cooked meat as a food source when there aren’t other better alternatives, fruits, vegetables, nuts and seeds are the best food sources for humans.
I’m keeping things basic for you here but hopefully you can understand these basics and go on to learn more on your own.
Feb 14, 2019 at 1:26 pm
I’m a diet “vegan” for health reasons (Dr’s orders) but I wear leather and would happily eat meat if I could. What do I class as? I’ve not made a conscious choice to be a vegetarian/vegan.
Is there a name for this?
Nov 06, 2018 at 3:11 pm
It’s an interesting question, one that not many people actually seem that interested in, except me :). I think the catchall term of veganism doesn’t define everyone who doesn’t eat meat or dairy. I wrote about this here: https://theplantway.com/what-is-a-vegan/
I would say you eat a plant-based diet, so you are ‘plant-based’. But society and the medical industry would classify you as “vegan” because that’s the definition they’ve adopted for a person who doesn’t eat meat or dairy. It is a bit misleading though because you would be classified under the same umbrella as someone else who is considered vegan because they don’t eat meat but eats a really unhealthy diet of Coca-Cola, chips and all kinds of processed foods. That person probably doesn’t really care about their own health much but puts the suffering of animals at the top of their priority list.
I personally wouldn’t be vegan if I couldn’t be healthy and do so, because I wouldn’t be living in the best interests of my own survival and longevity – which doesn’t make sense for any species. But the fact that I can live a healthy life and reduce my risk of major disease makes it the obvious choice for me, because simultaneously I do not need to initiate violence and exploitation towards other sentient beings. I can also reduce the destruction I cause to the environment:
And it is on this basis that I actually reject the word “vegan”. I see myself as a non-carnist, or someone who simply takes what I believe should be the default position of society, and that is to not unnecessarily inflict violence and suffering on other sentient beings. I think what we should be striving for in all areas of life is to reduce suffering as much as possible. The question should always be, “do we need to take this action”, if the answer is yes, then “how can we take this action in a way that causes the least suffering and destruction to others and the planet”.
Nov 06, 2018 at 4:40 pm
I understand why everyone makes food choices, but what about people that source their food locally through small farms? Where there isn’t forced separation, or factory farming. I noticed this wasn’t touched on in the article. Even if you live in a city there is such a focus nowadays on the farm to table movement, that sourcing food from small holdings is normal. Just curious!
Aug 30, 2018 at 6:51 pm
Little Miss Obvious says
Maybe in a couple months. I’ll take baby steps towards veganism. I got you. 😀
Jun 17, 2018 at 2:54 am
I mostly eat veggies but a few times a week i will have meats/chicken/fish
in my personal opinion i feel people consume far too much meat these days especially in western countries, with takeaways etc.
Thing is, with this vegan crusade….
Were closing in on 7 billion people, is a vegan lifestyle really sustainable for humans as a race?
Feb 21, 2018 at 12:48 pm
It’s the only solution to the population problem. Check out these stats:
– We use 56 million acres of land for animal agriculture while dedicating only four million acres of land to growing produce;
– A staggering 70 percent of grain in the U.S. is fed to farmed animals rather than to people (The world’s cattle alone consume a quantity of food equal to the caloric needs of 8.7 billion people — more than the entire human population on Earth);
– It takes 4,200 gallons of water PER DAY to produce a meat-eater’s diet. A plant-based diet uses only 300 gallons of water per day. Additionally, a whopping 70 percent of our domestic freshwater goes directly to animal agriculture
– All resources taken into account, one acre of land can produce 250 pounds of beef. Sounds pretty good, right? Not when you consider the fact that the same acre of land can produce 50,000 pounds of tomatoes or 53,000 pounds of potatoes.
Drought and other ‘natural’ disasters are often wrongly blamed for causing famines. Local people have always planned for freak acts of nature and although they may be the trigger that starts a famine, the underlying cause is the system of modern day neo-colonialism.
The land in poor countries is still largely not owned by the people who work on it and rents are high. Huge areas are owned by large companies based in the West. It is common for people to be thrown off the land, often going to the towns where there is little other work. About 160,000 people move from rural areas to cities every day. Many migrants are forced to settle in shanty towns and squatter settlements.
Much of this land is used to grow “cash crops” for export – like coffee, tobacco and animal feed – rather than to grow food for indigenous people. Countries agree to grow cash crops in order to pay off their crippling debts. Fifty-two of the world’s poorest countries owe the rich world in the region of £213 billion. Annual repayments total £14 billion – the majority of this from countries where most people are living on less than one dollar a day (see p7: Why are countries in debt?).
The sad irony is that the world produces more than enough plant food to meet the needs of all its six billion people. If people used land to grow crops to feed themselves, rather than feeding crops to animals, then there would be enough to provide everyone with the average of 2360 Kcal (calories) needed for good health.
If everyone were to take 25 per cent of their calories from animal protein then the planet could sustain only three billion people. In simple, brutal terms, if we were all to imitate the average North American diet, we would only be able to feed half the world’s population.
Feb 21, 2018 at 9:51 pm
I have a friend who is a vegan. How do i know? She has yet to tell me, but she has a few posts on her fb page that indicate that she is and another friend of hers who is vocal about veganism. Inmy mind i always pictured veggys and vegans as frail and weak minded. I don`t know where the imagery comes from[perhaps it`s some kind of subconsious influence generated by the meat industry🤔] Anyways neither of them is frail or weak minded. Possibly 2 of the kindest people I know! So I figured I would look a little deeper and here I am. Truthfully I can`t wait to ask her about it, why? How long? And I will definately thank her for not being pushy or condescending! A good example goes a long way! Thanks
Jan 01, 2018 at 4:09 pm
An example does go a long way, for sure.
It’s funny you say that. I grew up with that same mindset. Milk for calcium, meat for protein; you’ll get sick without it! Vegetarians and vegans are weak, most said.
My mum moved towards plant-based whole foods in the 80s and introduced us to the benefits of dried fruits, nuts, seeds, etc. This was seen as progressive at the time and I distinctly remember a kid at school saying “your mum is a health nut”. Clearly this came from the parent. My mum is 70 now and fitter than most people of 30. She walks her dog twice a day, is super trim and has endless energy.
But my teenage years took me into gyms where copious amounts of “chicken and tuna” were part of a pseudo health bible given to all newbies.
Playing quite high-level sports, I was fed a lot of lies about food and how the body works, which I just took for gospel because I trusted my teachers. Years later I set out on my own research path and subsequently reversed the indoctrination, and returned to eating a lot of the food my mum raved about when I was a kid. Subsequently, I’ve healed old injuries, improved my mental capacity for learning, and now have more energy than ever. I am back playing sports and running every week at 39.
It’s not just about food and health though. Just opening your mind beyond the government-driven rote learning system improves your critical thinking skills and teaches you where to look for more accurate information on many things, including animal welfare, the environment, human rights, politics., etc.
All the best.
Jan 10, 2018 at 5:41 am
This is a thought provoking comment! thank you! I was not expecting a reply. all the best to you too!!!
Jan 14, 2018 at 12:12 am
Now here’s my issue with this kind of approach from vegans: they always try to link being vegan with being a morally superior person. And then there’s the false impression they want to spread that vegetarianism is a step between being a person who enjoys killing animals for fun and being vegan – I’m obviously exaggerating the actual speech just to make it clear.
On every single wall of text made by vegans I predict that it will mention the way egg and milk industry works, always failing to see that there’s another option. And the same happened here.
I live in a small town out of US – which seems to be one of the countries that suffer the most with big industries and no regulation – and small farms are not only common, they’re basically the rule in here. I have my own chickens and since I’m a vegetarian I obviously don’t kill them nor sell them. I give them a comfortable life and take unfertilized eggs from them.
I understand not buying eggs from a supermarket but not eating eggs at all when you have the option to adopt some chickens and eat the eggs that would be wasted – since those are basically their periods – doesn’t make a lot of sense to me when you bring the moral aspect of it.
I also don’t wear leather or use anything that was tested on animals, but because I eat eggs that my own chickens produce naturally some vegans would look at me like a monster the moment I mention I eat eggs.
Also, I know it’s hard to imagine that some people are OK with eating meat and dairy products, but the fact is the world won’t turn vegetarian much less vegan anytime soon. So while we’re at it, can we please at least try to enforce laws that give animals that are killed or milked a better life? I see vegans freak out when they hear the phrase “humanitarian slaughter”, but this is one of the few things that could make meat eaters help us.
Instead of repressing them and making them feel guilty, we should ask them to help us against industries that torture animals through their entire life, for example keeping them on extremely small spaces for the rest of their lives, milking them until their tits bleed etc. If we could get meat eaters’ attention into these issues we could make them help us. It wouldn’t solve all problems but it would have a huge impact almost instantly.
If there were regulations and monitoring of workers to ensure they’re not beating, shocking, keeping animals on tight places etc., we would at least reduce this extra painful part of their lives until we find a way to convince everyone to stop eating meat, using leather and consuming dairy products.
Dec 23, 2017 at 10:16 pm
Robert Bagur says
You have hit the nail on the head. The same applies to honey, or even horse riding they ban. Vegetarians and vegetalians have a very strong case to make on grounds of common sense, decency and informed pragmatism. All vegans add is self-righteous cant about absolute principles that they themselves violate at every turn. “Thou shall not interfere with animals nor restrict their freedom in any way”, so no hives, honey, etc. But building houses, roads, using cars, tilling the land and defending crops is a permanent and violent interference with our animal cousins. Tens of millions of rats are killed every year just to keep the population in check. Population dynamics are notoriously volatile. Mouse plagues occur regularly in grain growing regions with up to two thousand mice per hectare. To live, we have to kill. We did not invent death or suffering. We cannot eradicate them with a stroke of our sectarian pen. We don’t need vegans. They are the sectarian worm in the ecological apple.
Sep 29, 2018 at 2:19 pm
You are wrong.
I have already been over this numerous times. You are arguing the “all or nothing” fallacy. I wrote about that here: https://theplantway.com/vegans-hypocrites/
No vegan is claiming that by eliminating animal agriculture and the unnecessary exploitation of animals for their meat, secretions and fur that we will eradicate the killing of animals and insects worldwide, forever The point is to reduce, as much as is possible, the suffering experienced by animals, and indeed any human being for that matter.
What type of person doesn’t want that?
I can never get my head around this ridiculous argument that somehow vegans are wrong, or veganism is flawed, because rats and mice still die in crop fields, and snails and slugs get stepped on in the garden, and mosquitoes get killed to prevent malaria.
The reality is, if we focused our money, efforts and technology on more effective ways of growing crops, which by the way we already see in some Scandinavian countries, the cost to animal life is minimal.
But instead we continue to selectively breed livestock, pumping them full of unnatural foods and drugs that make them sick, us sick and the environment sick.
Your argument that to live we have to kill is ridiculous. That implies intention to kill, as if its a prerequisite for society. What we should be working towards is not having to kill anything unnecessarily. As humans we should be working towards societies where no person initiates violence upon another person or non-human sentient being unnecessarily.
No vegan is saying that we should not eat meat if we need to. I’ve said this a million times: If I am facing a food shortage and I need to kill my neighbor’s dog and have a good meal on the barbecue, then that is what I will do. But in everyday life, in the civilised, intelligent society I live in, one that is able to meet all my nutritional needs through a plant-based diet, which by the way is very healthy and capable of preventing and reversing disease, and is a far better choice for protecting the very planet that supports my existence, then that’s what I’m going to do.
Because that is the normal thing to do. It is normal to not want to initiate violence on other living beings. It is normal to want to protect the environment that supports your existence by reducing unnecessary destruction.
Oct 02, 2018 at 1:34 pm
Some people think that most vegans don’t consider veganism to be a diet, and consider it to be a lifestyle choice. which does not kill the animal when it is sheared off, is considered immoral due to the high chance of harm it can cause the animal, as well as the fact that in modern times, we have so many synthetic and plant-based alternatives that risking harm is pretty pointless.
So they transcend diet ( unlike many vegetarians or people who eat plant-based) and eliminate their use of cosmetics and household products that are known to be detrimental to animals. This includes makeup and cleaning supplies, that is tested on animals, as well as things like some makeup brushes, that are made using horse hairs.They even eliminate clothing items that contain animal products, such as fur, leather, silk…
yah! this is a good point…
Another reason veganism is not a diet, is because there is no one set way to be vegan. You can be a vegan and eat a very healthy diet, or you can be vegan and eat mostly junk food, it’s up to you. Just being vegan doesn’t necessarily equate to being healthy(soda pop, potato chips, french fries…)
Being a vegan is a pride and I feel I am doing good things for the whole planet
Nov 19, 2017 at 1:58 pm
Absolutely. Veganism is about more than just diet: it’s a moral stance against the unnecessary cruelty to animals, and a lifestyle that seeks to minimize suffering to sentient beings. I talk a bit about this in this post: https://theplantway.com/what-is-a-vegan/ Being vegan doesn’t mean you are healthy by default. For this reason, many doctors who advocate a plant-based diet do no use the word vegan – because it does not inherently mean “healthy”.
Nov 20, 2017 at 10:15 pm
@Peter good article, thinks.
Nov 20, 2017 at 10:23 pm
But I don’t know how to label myself coz as much as others advocate against animal cruelty, I advocate against plant/veggie/fruit cruelty. Killing them plants and/or interfering with the nature’s way of reproducing and going on with their lives for the Human’s unnecessary consumption is terrible. Don’t you think so too?
I mean what is with the big fuss about this and that of eating animals or plants? Don’t you guys think that is is somehow their “actualization of being”, “life-purpose”?
Seriously, you treat too many animals as humans and yet there are a lot of humans still treated as animals. It is so inconsistent.
If you so value life, then don’t eat at all, neither meat nor plants. They have life too you know.
Sep 13, 2017 at 7:12 pm
So your going to starve yourself, I understand what you are saying but plants aren’t the same as animals
Oct 22, 2017 at 4:01 pm
I think the comment was done in a sarcastic manner. No one believes that we need to “spare the carrots”.
Dec 05, 2017 at 12:50 am
Dont let the carrots hear you say that 😉
Jan 01, 2018 at 3:43 pm
If what you say is true and you eat only fruits and veggies from plants that cannot be “killed” by harvest, then you are a vegetable (and assuming nuts and such) Fruitarian. Look it up on Wikipedia. Fruitarians are a weird bunch and a lot of my sister’s high school friends would fall under that category because they advocate only nuts and fruits and veggies from plants that you harvest without killing it (veggie examples are tomato, broccoli, zucchini, peppers…) Fruitarians won’t eat Lettuce, carrots, or the like. AND for most of them, I consider their eating habits a form of protest against modern farming and them trying to bring awareness to sustainability practices. My sister, on the other hand, just thinks the fruitarian (her friends don’t call it that) diet is stupid and her friends consider themselves strict vegan/paleo-vegan.
Paleo vegan/Paleo Fruitarian is basically Fruitarian based around the diets of our prehistoric gatherer ancestors (think the diet prehistoric ancestors ate before they learned to hunt) plus the “you can’t kill the plants” part.
Jun 03, 2018 at 8:29 pm
Thar Wala Yaar says
I have one opinion as a Indian and Hindu i know who eat eggs is not vegetarian,,,how could be egg eater is vegetarian,,,there is a life in egg ! If someone is eating child of a bird how could be he vegetarian !
May 01, 2017 at 12:39 am
^Are you serious? You know the eggs we normally eat are unfertilized, right?
Jun 14, 2017 at 6:25 am
True, eggs sold for human consumption are unfertilized, but the consequence is that the egg industry kills millions of newborn male baby chicks every single day. At the hatcheries that supply female chicks to factory egg farms, male chicks are sorted and killed shortly after birth by being ground up alive in giant macerators, gassed, or left to suffocate in garbage bags and dumpsters.
Moreover, wild hens lay only 10-15 eggs a year, Their bodies could never sustain the physical depletion of laying the hundreds of eggs that domestic chickens have been forced to produce through genetic manipulation. It is a common misconception that chickens are always just naturally “giving” eggs, because modern egg hens have been intensively bred to lay between 250 to 300 eggs a year. In the wild, chickens, like all birds, lay only during breeding season — primarily in the spring — and only enough eggs to assure the survival of their genes.
Jun 14, 2017 at 7:48 am
That’s not true. Our free range chickens lay a couple of eggs per day. Not 10-15 per year.
Oct 27, 2017 at 11:54 am
This refers to the red jungle fowl, the ancestor of today’s domestic chicken. Industrial farmed hens have been genetically bred to to lay more than 300 eggs per year.
But despite this, your hens will keep laying until they have collected enough for a clutch. If you keep taking the eggs away, the hens will think that they haven’t laid enough yet. Leave the eggs there and they will stop laying when they have a clutch of about a dozen eggs. The hen will then sit on them.
Oct 27, 2017 at 2:34 pm
The egg has to befertilized to have a embryo in it… Laying henna do not have access to rooster… No rooster no fertilized eggs… No life!!!
Nov 29, 2017 at 1:10 am
Sure, your grandfather’s farm is no doubt far better than a factory farm in the US or UK, but what milk and cheese do you eat when not in India? I presume you still eat it?
My wife’s grandfather owned a pig farm. He treated them really well. But the reality was that they were bred and enslaved in an unnatural environment for the purpose of slaughter or sale. So was he really treating them well? It was unnecessary, exploitation for profit. Farms enslave animals and exploit them. That’s the reality.
If I keep a woman locked in my house and treat her kindly: feed her, buy her gifts and let her watch TV, but only in return for sex that she doesn’t have a choice in; is this treating her well? Or is that different because she is a human?
Cows do not give you milk and cheese; you steal it from them. They do not have a choice. They are voiceless. The milk is meant for their calves. Mother Nature designed milk for calves, thus why science now shows just how bad it is for human health.
You don’t need milk. You therefore don’t need to interfere with the breeding cycle of cows. Would you like a cow to steal your breast milk that is meant for your child? Would you like a cow to squeeze your nipples for milk every time it wanted some human milk to drink? I’m assuming not.
With all due respect, I have no interest in antiquated cultural habits such as revering animals but simultaneously exploiting them and keeping them in unnatural environments. No matter how well-intentioned these traditions were 100 years ago, in a progressive society led by science, technology and intelligent, compassionate thinking, we simply don’t need to exploit animals to appropriate old traditions.
People may say they love cows in the same way many people who say they love their dogs but then grossly under-exercise them, feed them junk food that poisons their bloodstream and dress them in silly boutique doggy outfits.
I am not saying you are a bad person or that you don’t have good intentions, but you need to consider your choices in this matter. If you want to eat discarded eggs you find on the ground in a natural environment, that is your choice. You may also choose to eat roadkill, or dead humans.
But the milk is absolutely different.
Apr 27, 2017 at 4:36 pm
SMH SOOO many labels! Why do us vegans/vegetarians try so hard to advertise our eating choices like there is no one as special as us? This is why I hardly ever discuss it at all with people. As soon as I mention I don’t eat animal products, (I never even use the term “vegetarian”) they roll their eyes like some vegan-crusader already scolded them like a toddler for eating a chicken tender. It’s getting old, tbh. This whole lacto-ovo-vegetarian crap needs to end.
Why cant it just be: “I don’t eat anything with a face.”?
Instead of: ”
I don’t eat red meat or poultry or fish, but on Wednesday I eat eggs. I NEVER EVER drink dairy. How can anyone do that, it’s so gross. And don’t even get me started leather belts. Animal tested make-up is kay though. Don’t you dare cook your food over 118 degrees, you heathens!!!”
Apr 09, 2017 at 10:42 pm
I personally am not a vegetarian or vegan, though I have bee trying to cut down on my eat intake, I am unsure as to whether I will ever really get there. I am weak willed when it comes to my diet. However, with the vegan community, I feel there is a huge split. There are those that respect others choice, and while they advocate being vegan, and will honestly tell about what it is an how its like, there are others in a different boat. I mean vegans that assume if you are vegetarian, you WILL go vegan. Isn’t that a really crappy way of looking at it? For some people going to a vegetarian diet is a huge goal and they are proud, but then some vegans dump on them for not going on, that they still aren’t “good enough” because they didn’t go vegan. I understand seeing yourself in a vegetarian, as a lot of vegans start that way, but pushing your ideals onto others doesn’t really seem right.
Being passionate about what you believe is great, and it makes you a willful person in a good way. But discriminating against vegetarians seems extremely unnecessary. Being vegetarian sounds like hell form a social standpoint. Average diet people hate on them for being “veggie lovers” and vegan hate on them for not going far enough. There is no safe zone. It seems like many vegans push and pressure vegetarians to go vegan, doesn’t that make you just as bad as the average diet people forcing their ideals on you? Sure average diet people clearly don’t care about the food industry and it’s savagery, and being vegan doesn’t exactly have it’s downsides, but the point is that both ways, you are forcing your ideals unto someone else, and treating them differently because of it.
Humans are animals too, being vegan, isn’t it literally your way of life to treat other humans with respect? Treat others how you wish to be treated? It seems childish, but 2 wrongs don’t make a right. If they are “wrong” in their views, you pushing onto them is also wrong. I’m not saying all are like this, but as a community, don’t you think discriminating against a group that is clearly suffering just as much as you is really hypocritical?
I sincerely don’t mean to sound preachy, but in my group of friends, there are a good 6-7 vegetarians, and 4 of them went to college together. They formed a vegetarian/transitioning diet group, but they got a lot of hate from some vegans in their school, and some of m other friends get hate elsewhere. I am honestly questioning why? Why do some vegans feel they have a right to be disappointing in vegetarians for not going vegan. Why do they feel they have a right to question a persons life and diet at all?
Mar 13, 2017 at 8:31 am
Kevin Kordes says
I’m a vegetarian, and have a lot of meat-eating friends. But one thing I never do is make comments about their choices of food.
I live in a college town (Riverside, CA) and there are a lot of militant vegans here that hand out really offensive literature downtown near the university.
All of you vegan nazis should just shut up and keep your lifestyle to yourselves.
When was the last time you saw a YouTube vid from a vegetarian that was militant?
Well, I haven’t seen a one. But, some of the childish nonsense coming from vegans reminds me of other extremist groups.
If you guys want your vegan lifestyle to catch on you had better stick to health and stay away from radicalism.
Aug 24, 2016 at 7:45 pm
Cynthia Tisdale says
Mar 28, 2017 at 2:56 am
We have been hunter gathers since the dawn of time
Apr 23, 2018 at 8:49 pm
No we haven’t. We aren’t now, and we weren’t at many stages of our history. Currently we live in an agricultural society which chooses, by culture, to unnaturally rear and eat domesticated species. This is quite the opposite to hunter gatherers, who obtain food by collecting wild plants and pursuing wild animals. The earliest hominins were vegetarians, with hunting coming on board much later, having gone through a stage of scavenging before hunting.
Apr 23, 2018 at 8:59 pm
Agree well said. I want to have a plant based diet because I’m a type two diabetic and want to be healthy. I have been looking into a plant based diet cause that is what it is.
Dec 09, 2017 at 7:17 am
Amanda Harris says
Hi, I’m vegetarian, and I can’t find the type of vegetarianism I follow; Lacto Vegetarian where vegetarians don’t eat any animals or eggs, but do have dairy products. Yes, many people find the categories of vegetarianism very hilarious, but lacto-vegetarianism has been prominent in many sects of the religion I follow, and yes, there is a very big difference in Lacto-Ovo-Vegetarianism and Lacto Vegetarianism. A few religious groups and different sects of these religions follow different forms of vegetarianism, and the differences in the sects are mainly because of these types of vegetarianism. And not every vegetarian is lenient in their beliefs, most of the vegetarians I know(my whole family, extended family and like, like 90% of the people I know) support animal cruelty or use tested products, and if they do, it’s just because they didn’t know; and the reason for going vegan or vegetarian isn’t always about cruelty to animals. Not many people even have the choice of not being vegetarian (which isn’t a bad thing, especially when it’s a family thing) and being vegetarian isn’t always just a step towards veganism. And for many people vegetarianism is also defined;no meat, no eggs(unless it’s in cake, which most people do avoid(3 cheers for eggless cakes!)) and nothing that has animal enzymes(like cheese that has rennet). I’m in the process of becoming vegan, because in the country I currently live in, the cruelty towards cows is heartbreaking, while in my home country, cows are treated really well as they are quite sacred to most.
Aug 12, 2016 at 1:21 am
Hey Amanda, thanks for letting me know. I have added lacto vegetarian into the post now; sorry for missing it out. Cows are indeed treated horrifically. The dairy industry subjects female cows to repeated rape so that they are consistently pregnant and able to produce milk. They regularly suffer from mastitis, which is a painful inflammatory reaction of the udder tissue, that can be fatal. I hope some of the posts on this blog will help you with your transition to veganism.
Aug 12, 2016 at 7:36 pm
Jay Tee says
As soon as we create meat (and other animal products) in a laboratory, and then at factories, all of this will seem like nonsense. Once that happens, we can stop having all the animals created, let alone killed to be eaten. “Vegans” should be supporting the funding of these food scientists’ work, IMO.
The sooner they succeed, the sooner everyone will meet your ethical standards; even those who don’t want to, or don’ t care to, or don’t even think about it!
Jun 03, 2016 at 2:00 am
Hey Jay, it is a valid point to raise. Some vegans do support laboratory meat because they see this as a solution to stopping the cruelty involved with animal agriculture, I don’t any vegan would eat it though.
Personally, I don’t support it. Why do we need to interfere with the natural processes of nature to satisfy a want that is wholly unnecessary?
Approximately 70% of disease epidemics in the last 100 years have been caused by humans interfering with the way in which animals are raised; confining them to small spaces to breed and feeding them abnormal diets. If you have time check out this talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G20cooZOiYE
Genetically engineering meat isn’t going to be without its risks, and like our greedy approach to animal agriculture, the risks won’t be realized until millions get sick, or worse, die. Meat aside, look at the health problems and environmental devastation being caused crop spraying with pesticides and mono-culture farming in general.
Moreover, science has proven that a plant-based diet is the healthiest, and the only one capable of reversing coronary heart disease, the biggest killer in the US, and of preventing many of the other big killers like diabetes and prostate & ovarian cancer The World Health Organization finally admitted last year that eating processed meat is as bad as smoking, so why pour billions into developing a new type of processed meat in a lab that will ultimately harm us?
What we should be doing, instead of trying to recreate meat, is spending money on educating people about the real dangers of meat and dairy. The truth and the science is out there but for far too long lobbyists/big business has done its best to hide it in the name of profits.
Jun 03, 2016 at 4:42 am
Bro, we have the science and ability to go towards an entirely plant-based diet. Why waste the research on lab-grown beef? That srill will be mad expensive and for many many years unreglated—theyll put stuff in there we couldn’t now, to minimize cost, keep prices up, and maximize profit. I’d rather they just invest in making plants more economical and lessen the impact of horticulture on the environment.
Jun 18, 2016 at 7:11 pm
I completely agree!
Jun 20, 2016 at 12:41 pm
“The World Health Organization finally admitted last year that eating processed meat is as bad as smoking…”
This is incorrect and frequently misinterpreted. The WHO stated that eating processed meat (like smoking) causes cancer. Their findings (like all findings in this particular study) make no statement as to the _likelihood_ of cancer from a certain activity, only the confidence they have that the relationship between the activity and cancer is non-zero. They have high confidence that both of these things will increase your risk for cancer, but smoking is (of course) far more hazardous to your health than processed meat.
Oct 13, 2016 at 2:40 am
The official line is: Processed meat was classified as Group 1, carcinogenic to humans. Red meat was classified as Group 2A, probably carcinogenic to humans.
Now, you can bet your bottom dollar the fact that WHO even came out with this information means the the information was negotiated, heavily sugar coated and vetted by those with interests in not putting the public off of meat completely. So for me, the fact that they even released this was HUGE.
For those who follow the independent science outside of the news, this is old hat anyway, and very dumbed down.
Science has known for years that meat consumption increases IGF1 (Insulin-like Growth Factor) to dangerous levels and therefore promotes cancer. I quote:
A number of epidemiologic studies have shown consistently that high circulating levels of a potent mitogen, insulin-like growth factor (IGF)-I, are associated with increased risk for several common cancers, including those of the breast (2), prostate (3), lung (4), and colorectum (5). jnci.oxfordjournals.org/content/92/18/1472.full
I’d rather not take the risk, and if I was a meat-eater I certainly wouldn’t eat any type of processed meat. One must also consider that all meat causes inflammation in the body, with one of the least inflammatory being wild Kangaroo meat I believe.
To quote Dr Gregor:
We’ve known for 14 years that a single meal of meat, dairy, and eggs triggers an inflammatory reaction inside the body within hours of consumption. This results in a stiffening of our arteries. Within 5 or 6 hours, the inflammation starts to cool down, but then what happens? Lunchtime! At that point we can whack our arteries with another load of animal products for lunch. In this routine, we may be stuck in a chronic low-grade inflammation danger zone for most of our lives. This can set us up for inflammatory diseases such as heart disease, diabetes, and certain cancers one meal at a time.
Oct 13, 2016 at 5:18 am
Exactly. They’re making a statement of how sure they are that something is carcinogenic, not _how_ carcinogenic it is. Your statement that “processed meat is as bad as smoking” implies that they are equally carcinogenic. This would be like saying “jaywalking is as deadly as playing Russian roulette”; they are both certain to increase your risk of death, but participating in one is far more likely to result in death than the other.
Oct 13, 2016 at 2:02 pm
I take your point, but your jaywalking example is not a good comparison. The fact is, a moderate smoker may be less likely to die of cancer than a serial processed meat eater, and of course vice versa. They have both been put in the same category of carcinogen because potentially they both have the same capacity to cause cancer. Also consider that they said this: In the case of processed meat, this classification is based on sufficient evidence from epidemiological studies that eating processed meat causes colorectal cancer.
Oct 14, 2016 at 4:44 am
Sigh up says
There’s a similarity between the two: They’re just like the religious people: dumb.
May 11, 2016 at 2:39 pm
Heinrich Zentgraf says
Ok so. I want to make the change to vegetarianism. Could someone guide me in the right direction to some form of comprehensive diet plan please?
Apr 14, 2016 at 6:32 pm
Excuse the stupid question. I am trying to go vegetarian — slowly. My husband is a big opponent. However, what is wrong with a few eggs, if I raise my own chickens? Or cheese, if I raise my own goats? No one is being torn away from mommy, and the few cupfulls I need are always after the babies are older. Is that ok?
Oct 10, 2015 at 1:09 pm
Author Kayla Perrin says
That is certainly better. If you’re not killing the chickens when egg production declines, nor selling the male kids to be killed so you can consume milk, then your situation would be vastly better than commercial egg & milk practices.
May 01, 2016 at 7:29 pm
Erwin Anciano says
It’s all okay. Don’t let any crack pot Vegans convince you otherwise. Mankind was born onto this earth to take what they need from it with impunity. Anyone who opposes this is in some fantasy dreamland.
You consume others in order to live. This is the natural way of things. It’s a truth nobody can escape, unless you want to go the laboratory meat route, and vegans don’t want that either. If not you aren’t eating animals, you are simply diverting it to consuming plants. It’s not any better. Vegans like to pretend it is just so they can claim some moral high ground, but it’s the same shit.
If harming animals is wrong, Vegans should kill off all the predators in the world who are cruelly killing other species’ babies for lunch. But they can’t do that now, can they? Veganism is idiotic sophistry at its finest.
Jul 07, 2016 at 4:59 pm
“Mankind was born onto this earth to take what they need from it with impunity”. This selfish, greedy attitude is the reason we have destroyed the very planet supporting our existence: see here: https://theplantway.com/32-reasons-give-up-eating-meat-today/
Modern science now knows that a vegan diet is the healthiest diet for humans, thus the reason so many physicians are turning to plant-based medicine to treat the root cause of common health conditions such as diabetes, asthma, and of course coronary heart disease; because as we know a plant-based diet is the only diet capable of reversing the world’s number one killer – (see here: http://www.dresselstyn.com/site/study01/)
You might do well to listen to this heart surgeon too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FX58PyQwrcI
So, since you look at life from a purely primal perspective, this should make a vegan diet the default for you, since it will give you the highest chance of living the longest.
Of course harming animals is wrong, when it’s so unnecessary. Sure, if we had to eat meat to survive then fine; but we don’t. So why inflict torture, pain and suffering onto other sentient beings when you don’t need to? We have evolved to the point where we know that to thrive as a species, and to protect the health of our planet, a plant-based diet is the intelligent, progressive choice.
Why would you choose to inflict suffering onto another being unnecessarily? Would you do that to a child? And yes, the comparison is relevant. Why? Because science has shown that animals feel parallel levels of fear, stress and anxiety and pain to humans.
We don’t need to eat meat. Period.
Moreover, modern animal agriculture is a completely unnatural way to eat meat, thus the numerous diseases it has caused (see here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G20cooZOiYE). Not to mention the amount of antibiotics required to sustain the practice — 80% of all antibiotics sold in the US are used for raising livestock.
Even Amazonian hunter-gatherer tribes, who eat meat, only take the very minimum from nature. They take what they need and don’t kill unnecessarily in the name of greed. They sure as hell aren’t pro deforestation to support animal agriculture to feed greedy societies hell bent on eating as much saturated fat as possible and ending up on prescription medication in an attempt to fight off an early death from heart disease.
“Vegans should kill off all the predators in the world who are cruelly killing other species’ babies for lunch”. Got news for you buddy. You aren’t a carnivore. You aren’t even an omnivore. You evolved to be able to eat COOKED meat. Carnivorous predators need to eat meat. You don’t.
Look at the science.
Jul 07, 2016 at 6:00 pm
Hey Peter, why don’t YOU look at the science? Vegans and Vegetarians are more susceptible to Cancer and sicknesses. Meat is very important and healthy if you eat it in the right way.
Sep 11, 2017 at 10:01 pm
I think you have that the wrong way around. All the science points to exactly the opposite.
The International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC) has classified processed meat as a carcinogen, something that causes cancer. And it has classified red meat as a probable carcinogen, something that probably causes cancer. IARC is the cancer agency of the World Health Organization. https://www.cancer.org/latest-news/world-health-organization-says-processed-meat-causes-cancer.html
And then there’s cardiovascular disease caused by saturated fat (dietary cholesterol) from meat. See the American Cardiology Association’s latest paper on that here: http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/early/2017/06/15/CIR.0000000000000510
We can get into dairy too, see here: https://theplantway.com/20-ways-dairy-destroys-your-health
Sep 12, 2017 at 9:41 am
B the Beat says
Nevaeh, you need to hop on Netflix and watch “What the Health.” That’s all I’ll say.
Sep 19, 2017 at 3:19 pm
I was a vegetarian for many years and I just didn’t get it. Finally went vegan three months ago. Here’s what kept me from taking that step for so long: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZe-h2vy5hA
May 18, 2015 at 12:49 pm
Great video, Eva. Thanks for sharing your story.
May 18, 2015 at 2:22 pm
Geanie Marie says
I’m not currently a vegetarian, and am just looking into this lifestyle. This was an interesting article and very informative. I do have one question though. You say people shouldn’t drink milk , but I wonder what would happen to all the milk if no one drank it – just throw it away? And what would be the point of a dairy cow. Would people cease to raise them? Because it would way too much
trouble to milk a cow every day if not for the milk. Sorry for the possibly dumb questions, just trying to understand this..
Feb 12, 2015 at 2:52 am
Hey Geanie, cows are artificially impregnated (raped) in order to make them continually produce milk. If we stopped drinking milk then the dairy industry would lose half of its income over night and we’d put a stop to this unnecessary, cruel practice. As for the milk, it belongs to the calves, not us. There are plenty of alternatives. Just this morning I had organic hemp milk for breakfast; not just delicious but also a rich source of omega 3.
Feb 12, 2015 at 2:50 pm
Rosa Borisova says
I agree 100% with Peter.If may only add that the only milk we need is the milk from our own mothers…thats it. Jus enough to boos your immune system …enough for the rest of your life. Just as any other mammal species.
Mar 13, 2016 at 4:36 am
Terry Phillips says
It’s funny, I’d sooner become a meat eater that didn’t consume dairy than a vegetarian that consumed milk, cheese, etc. Nothing makes my body feel worse than dairy, I’m lucky to find it so easy to be vegan!
Feb 09, 2015 at 7:53 pm
I know there’s a big difference…but wouldn’t you consider vegetarianism positive in the sense that it’s a stepping stone to veganism?
Feb 07, 2015 at 3:07 pm
Absolutely. It is a positive step, and one that often comes before going vegan. But most vegetarians still eat dairy products, which is a massive no for vegans because of the torture involved in obtaining milk from cows. So in that respect vegans will continue to encourage vegetarians to make that last, crucial move to veganism.
Feb 08, 2015 at 9:51 pm
Absolutely. It is a positive step, and one that often comes before going vegan. But most vegetarians still eat dairy products, which is a massive no for vegans because of the torture involved in obtaining milk from cows. So in that respect vegans will continue to encourage vegetarians to make that last, crucial move to veganism.
Feb 08, 2015 at 10:01 pm